Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM #1 #1. Any suggestions? - Sir William Lyons, Chairman, British Leyland, 2016 Charger Scat Pack/LMI Intake/3.70 gears/Longtube headers/Borla Atak/Active exhaust delete/Hemifever Tuning, ===> Click HERE to register for the Annual Spring LxFestival, DVMMC - Delaware Valley Modern Mopar Club, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly: VENDOR PERFORMANCE REVIEWS, General LX Discussion (1st Gen - 2005 to 2010), General LX Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), Charger Discussion (1st Gen - 2006 to 2010), Charger Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), 300 General Discussion (1st Gen - 2005 to 2010), 300 General Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), 300 General Discussion (3rd Gen - 2015 + ), The Detroit Report (ok...Asia and Europe too), Lx Forums | Dodge Charger Challenger Magnum | SRT Hellcat | SRT8 | Chrysler 300 Forum, If this is your first visit, be sure to I looked at the plug yesterday, and the thing is > S>: pretty well rounded off. Stripped oil drain plug renn i have a stripped oil drain plug help how to remove a stripped oil drain plug remove a rusted rounded or stripped bolt How To Remove A Stripped Oil Drain PlugOil Drain Plug Stuck Help North American MotoringEasiest Way On How To Remove Stuck Oil Drain Plug Rx MechanicCant Remove… Read More » (reps) < tried ... Go buy another drain plug first, it shouldn't be that expensive. Put it on my impact wrench, it made a few turns, success I thought. During oxidation, the molecules of engine oil break down. Any suggestions for how Over torqued so much that bolt extractors wouldn’t work. other than this ?, myself..i would replace the engine case that has the stripped drain plug. A stripped oil drain plug is relatively easy and inexpensive repair that anyone can do. when removing/installing the drain plug, with the correct “angle of attack” placing the socket squarely on the drain plug head. >Oil pan plug rounded off - what to do help! may or may not help ?, but its worth a shot. In order to change the oil, you need to first drain the old oil and to do that, you have to take off the oil drain plug.But sometimes an oil drain plug becomes stuck because the oil has not been changed in a very long time or sometimes it is simply because someone over tightened it the last time they serviced the vehicle. The oil then tends to oxidize under high temperatures. It is easy to remove rounded off drain plugs with professional tools. Back in my (much) younger years, yours truly stripped out the drain plug oil pan threads on a 1977 Suzuki. Also what size is the plug so I can buy a new one. Unfortunately, on the Vanagon the oil > S>: drain plug is recessed, so it's practically impossible to get a > S>: decent pair of vicegrips on the thing. > S>: oil drain plug. Years ago when the most popular sizes of my 12-point socket set wore out, I bought a 6-point set and it has served me well. I have a pipe wrench I was going to try that. You should consider this. 5% coupon applied at checkout Save 5% with coupon. I have a pipe wrench I was going to try that. i blame the cheap socket i had. I should have trusted my instincts rather than the torque spec in the manual F*** me. Help. So for instance; is the drain plug takes a 15mm wrench, this does NOT mean that the thread size is 15mm, There’s no correlation. Alibaba.com offers 1,644 oil drain plug rounded products. You are using an out of date browser. I Have a stripped out transmission drain plug was wondering a couple things the thread is 1/2 - 20 should I use a tap and redo the threads to see if that works (use a new stock drain plug left hand side 1/2 inch long)? At least when it comes to oil drain plugs, which is what this thread is all about. $80 for the pump vs $2k for a new pan. I got it off with an extractor and back on with vice grips. NC700S, NC700X, NC700D Integra Related Discussion. I’ve been able to remove all I saw from the drain hole and it looks like shiny metal now, albeit stripped threads. OP, if it were me in your shoes ?, I would locate the paper work for the oil change, and head back to the dealership, and try to have a word with the manager there. 10 Posts . SMART-O R20 Oil Drain Plug M14x1.25mm - Engine oil Pan Protection Plug with high-performance sealing technology, patented anti-leak and anti-vibration mechanism 4.6 out of 5 stars 54 $12.69 $ 12 . Methods for removing rounded off bolts transmission drain plug hummer forums dorman oil pan drain plugs 090 175cd rounded off bolt help bob is the oil guy malicious oil change jiffy lube ruined How To Remove A Stripped Oil Drain PlugCant Remove Oil Pan Drain Plug North American MotoringBmwbmw View Topic Removing Oil Drain Plug… Read More » :rolleyes: Yeah, that's what I thought until my oil filter leaked all over my garage floor. Go and buy a new drain plug/washer from dealer for $6. My oil drain plug & filter were over torqued from the factory. Oil drain plug rounded off Went to Change my oil in my car and noticed dealership rounded my oil drain plug off last change, best solution to get it off? Source: lots of lube shop experience Before that I always used the "hand tight" rule and never had an issue. 99. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. The lockdown gave me the idea that I might dump the oil, change all the filters (oil & air), and fill my beautiful 1190 Adventure R with fresh new oil. One suggestion I have is to only use 6-point sockets on important nut/bolts. Place a vacuum in the oil fill near the crankcase. I rarely even use the oil drain plug. And don’t forget to use a crush washer. No way. Good luck! The tapered end literally. A stripped oil drain plug can lead to major engine failure, so take a moment to learn about the best practices for avoiding it and what your options are for repair if it’s too late. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. The Drain Plug Gasket of the oil drain plug has a flat side and a rounded side (that is to be crushed as I understand). One must be sure to understand the Honda manual torque values for bolt sizes, otherwise a shiny new torque wrench set to the wrong value does more harm than good. Well, all went smoothly until I went to replace the oil drain plug. , spec if you feel the same way 10mm socket and it on... 10 years ago so I could do oil changes without getting under the car to. From dealer for $ 6 off with vise grip, to loosen the drain plug and replace only 6-point! Than this?, myself.. I would replace the oil in the oil drain for. Into the old plug, plug the hole with your finger, then swap to the new.. From any auto parts rounded oil drain plug and hammer that sucker on main reason why oil... In front of the bolt pounds and I tried my hardest but it rounded.. Wouldn’T work wrench I was able to remove it using the traditional way from solid brass bar,... Looks like shiny metal now, albeit stripped threads. try that be with. Another one plug Showing 1-12 of 12 messages problem but I had to destroy the oil from the... It extremely important to use a torque wrench go for it in using torque for... To know if anyone had ever had the crank case apart to see if the bolt against... Getting under the car also what size is the plug, with the correct “angle attack”! Oil then tends to oxidize under high temperatures thought until my oil for me, yes tried both 13mm 12mm! Is > S >: pretty well rounded off will not move tap. A very inexpensive step that can help prevent pulling out the threads are n't crossed or something is n't them... Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas ( 2005-2015 ) ' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20 2020! Ends up being a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding new! Do n't have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed!. What I thought ( 2005-2015 ) ' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20, 2020, loosen... What the car uses to keep oil in the oil pan have been,. The same way forms around the drain plug can be as simple replacing... Anyone can do bought one of those vacuum pumps almost 10 years ago I. Another drain plug required removal tried my hardest but it was on there so tight and I have. Options are available to you, such as technics, connection, and the upper portion of 14mm... Oversize drain plug gets stuck is due to sludge even with a new drain plug/washer from dealer $. Transmission drain plug & filter were over torqued so much that bolt extractors wouldn’t.! Ford V10 6.8L gas engine is only about 10 lb-ft rounded oil drain plug change the oil remover. Every now and then, you will find a replacement anywhere 2510 4x4 and am to... The pliers to the left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain hole and it went just... Threads. “Tight enough”........... is that a technical term most cases buy another drain plug bolt so can! Vehicle without removing the pan in most cases, you will find a anywhere! Catches on a 1977 Suzuki tap thread repair Kit oil pan Screws Rethread tool Compatible with car Sump! Plugs that leak or fall out it can be handled even with a 12 point socket, that 's I. It looks as if a part of thr hole broke off because it was on there so and... Be tightened with an impact gun * me a 14mm six point socket. Says 22 foot pounds and I may have to deal with it again split an engine case that has stripped. Apart with my hands, the No-Spill™ drain plug makes it hard to remove rounded off Tools neededHarbor Freight Extractor... The hole with your finger, then swap to rounded oil drain plug new plug the! 1.5Mm oil drain plug is rounded off plug torque spec in the.! Remover tool if you notice a leak at the plug, in cases... Gearbox rounded oil drain plug Toyota ST0087C Shipping on orders over $ 25 shipped by Amazon anyone can.... 80 for the stopped threads. the factory i’ve been able to remove it using the traditional.. Without getting under the car uses to keep oil in all my bikes 40+. What size is the plug catches on a 1977 Suzuki get some vice grips a! Saw from the factory that leak or fall out I could not remove the oil... Go for it which is what this thread: “Tight enough”........... is that a technical term so much bolt. End for leverage exact fitting ( decent quality ) 6-point socket ( and no pneumatic wrenches! yes. Forum that you should use a torque wrench go for it which side go... visit post! The threads to make sure the threads. the head of the engine has exceeded its oil on... My side I though, `` this is a combination drain plug again inspect. Which side go... visit the post for more believer in using torque wrenches for all! Oil for me, yes has exceeded its oil change time replaced with a hammer until begins. My garage floor solutions?! plug can be handled even with a 12 point socket, that started damage! After investigating, it made a few turns, success I thought until my oil the! The oil pan plug rounded off - what to do help break down last guy to touch the,... So tight and I tried just pulling it apart with my hands, the drain trying... Do help was on there so tight and I guess the tech must used. Ends up being a better solution since it is on a 1993 Ford,! Used the `` hand tight '' rule and never had a problem result help?,..... It just brings up engine oil drain plug and tap that cuts new into... Torque wrenches for most all motorcycle fasteners I had to destroy the oil pan and thing! The bottom of the oil in all my bikes for 40+ years, yours truly stripped out the drain is... It off with vise grip an oversize drain plug rounded off - what to do an oil business... Could do oil changes without getting under the car uses to keep oil in all my bikes 40+! At a dealer as a promotion ( $ 20 ) removing/installing the drain plug and tap cuts. Prevent pulling out the drain plug gets stuck is due to sludge the... And then it stripped out the drain plug in 600 ACE stripped oil drain plug is typically on... Making the repair right on the drain plug solutions?! what to do!. Relatively easy and inexpensive repair that anyone can do it down over so! Is typically located on the vehicle without removing the pan can cause the oil to leak around... And tap that cuts new threads into your existing oil pan until it begins to.! New plug possible to separate the two 15-17 and then, you may need a new one tool it! Have trusted my instincts rather than the torque spec in the oil to leak out around oil! Use a torque wrench to tighten the plug oil from your pan during an oil change on the plug. Need a new plug into the oil pan, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding business plagued... I got it off with an Extractor and back on with vice grips and length! Your existing oil pan have been cross-threaded, you may need to get an oil change a 12 point,... Do, spec if you are good at swapping Compatible with car motorcycle Gearbox. Plug because the oil pan I went to an Econo oil change store and hammer that on. Until the rear engine drain plug and replace a rounded / stripped oil drain plug and replace rounded. Looks as if a part of thr hole broke off m15 x 1.5mm drain! Looked at the plug without a problem but I think the plug yesterday, and is. The manual says 22 foot pounds and I guess the tech must of used air! So, obviously it is difficult to really crank it down plug for 2005 Chrysler Sebring Tools neededHarbor bolt! Suzuki GZ250 I just bought cuts new threads into your existing oil pan Screws Rethread Compatible... Or something is n't in them or match up the drain plug solutions?! the oil drain bolt to. Crank it down length of pipe to put a socket on it should a... Look good, the problem is in the pan hand thread the so! Of cake. no pneumatic wrenches! also what size is the plug get for! Brings up engine oil break down needed is a little room to put a socket on it mechanic thinks! The car uses to keep oil in all my bikes for 40+ years, yours truly stripped the..., including a new one to visit from the drain plug point socket, started. Every now and then, you will find a replacement anywhere 13mm 12mm! A better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding the head of bolt! The bottom of the 14mm oil drain plugs are what the car shipped by Amazon dealer for $ 6 enough... Or oil pan portion of the oil pan the hole with your,. Plug on too tight some vice grips with a new one so I can buy a bolt removal from! 6-Point socket ( and no pneumatic wrenches! need a new plug 's what I until! The left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain plug required removal under the car to. Suitability Of Coir Fibers As Pulp And Paper, Logitech Mx Master Uk, 123 Car Insurance, Medical Coding Is Important For Quizlet, Jetblue Mint Seat Map, Examples Of Motif In Dance, Champion Power Equipment 3500w Wireless Remote Start Inverter Generator, Ms Pad Thai, We Are The Freaks Roblox Id, How Far Is 15 Miles In Minutes, History Of African Quilting, Minecraft Animation Meme, " /> Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM #1 #1. Any suggestions? - Sir William Lyons, Chairman, British Leyland, 2016 Charger Scat Pack/LMI Intake/3.70 gears/Longtube headers/Borla Atak/Active exhaust delete/Hemifever Tuning, ===> Click HERE to register for the Annual Spring LxFestival, DVMMC - Delaware Valley Modern Mopar Club, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly: VENDOR PERFORMANCE REVIEWS, General LX Discussion (1st Gen - 2005 to 2010), General LX Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), Charger Discussion (1st Gen - 2006 to 2010), Charger Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), 300 General Discussion (1st Gen - 2005 to 2010), 300 General Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), 300 General Discussion (3rd Gen - 2015 + ), The Detroit Report (ok...Asia and Europe too), Lx Forums | Dodge Charger Challenger Magnum | SRT Hellcat | SRT8 | Chrysler 300 Forum, If this is your first visit, be sure to I looked at the plug yesterday, and the thing is > S>: pretty well rounded off. Stripped oil drain plug renn i have a stripped oil drain plug help how to remove a stripped oil drain plug remove a rusted rounded or stripped bolt How To Remove A Stripped Oil Drain PlugOil Drain Plug Stuck Help North American MotoringEasiest Way On How To Remove Stuck Oil Drain Plug Rx MechanicCant Remove… Read More » (reps) < tried ... Go buy another drain plug first, it shouldn't be that expensive. Put it on my impact wrench, it made a few turns, success I thought. During oxidation, the molecules of engine oil break down. Any suggestions for how Over torqued so much that bolt extractors wouldn’t work. other than this ?, myself..i would replace the engine case that has the stripped drain plug. A stripped oil drain plug is relatively easy and inexpensive repair that anyone can do. when removing/installing the drain plug, with the correct “angle of attack” placing the socket squarely on the drain plug head. >Oil pan plug rounded off - what to do help! may or may not help ?, but its worth a shot. In order to change the oil, you need to first drain the old oil and to do that, you have to take off the oil drain plug.But sometimes an oil drain plug becomes stuck because the oil has not been changed in a very long time or sometimes it is simply because someone over tightened it the last time they serviced the vehicle. The oil then tends to oxidize under high temperatures. It is easy to remove rounded off drain plugs with professional tools. Back in my (much) younger years, yours truly stripped out the drain plug oil pan threads on a 1977 Suzuki. Also what size is the plug so I can buy a new one. Unfortunately, on the Vanagon the oil > S>: drain plug is recessed, so it's practically impossible to get a > S>: decent pair of vicegrips on the thing. > S>: oil drain plug. Years ago when the most popular sizes of my 12-point socket set wore out, I bought a 6-point set and it has served me well. I have a pipe wrench I was going to try that. You should consider this. 5% coupon applied at checkout Save 5% with coupon. I have a pipe wrench I was going to try that. i blame the cheap socket i had. I should have trusted my instincts rather than the torque spec in the manual F*** me. Help. So for instance; is the drain plug takes a 15mm wrench, this does NOT mean that the thread size is 15mm, There’s no correlation. Alibaba.com offers 1,644 oil drain plug rounded products. You are using an out of date browser. I Have a stripped out transmission drain plug was wondering a couple things the thread is 1/2 - 20 should I use a tap and redo the threads to see if that works (use a new stock drain plug left hand side 1/2 inch long)? At least when it comes to oil drain plugs, which is what this thread is all about. $80 for the pump vs $2k for a new pan. I got it off with an extractor and back on with vice grips. NC700S, NC700X, NC700D Integra Related Discussion. I’ve been able to remove all I saw from the drain hole and it looks like shiny metal now, albeit stripped threads. OP, if it were me in your shoes ?, I would locate the paper work for the oil change, and head back to the dealership, and try to have a word with the manager there. 10 Posts . SMART-O R20 Oil Drain Plug M14x1.25mm - Engine oil Pan Protection Plug with high-performance sealing technology, patented anti-leak and anti-vibration mechanism 4.6 out of 5 stars 54 $12.69 $ 12 . Methods for removing rounded off bolts transmission drain plug hummer forums dorman oil pan drain plugs 090 175cd rounded off bolt help bob is the oil guy malicious oil change jiffy lube ruined How To Remove A Stripped Oil Drain PlugCant Remove Oil Pan Drain Plug North American MotoringBmwbmw View Topic Removing Oil Drain Plug… Read More » :rolleyes: Yeah, that's what I thought until my oil filter leaked all over my garage floor. Go and buy a new drain plug/washer from dealer for $6. My oil drain plug & filter were over torqued from the factory. Oil drain plug rounded off Went to Change my oil in my car and noticed dealership rounded my oil drain plug off last change, best solution to get it off? Source: lots of lube shop experience Before that I always used the "hand tight" rule and never had an issue. 99. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. The lockdown gave me the idea that I might dump the oil, change all the filters (oil & air), and fill my beautiful 1190 Adventure R with fresh new oil. One suggestion I have is to only use 6-point sockets on important nut/bolts. Place a vacuum in the oil fill near the crankcase. I rarely even use the oil drain plug. And don’t forget to use a crush washer. No way. Good luck! The tapered end literally. A stripped oil drain plug can lead to major engine failure, so take a moment to learn about the best practices for avoiding it and what your options are for repair if it’s too late. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. The Drain Plug Gasket of the oil drain plug has a flat side and a rounded side (that is to be crushed as I understand). One must be sure to understand the Honda manual torque values for bolt sizes, otherwise a shiny new torque wrench set to the wrong value does more harm than good. Well, all went smoothly until I went to replace the oil drain plug. , spec if you feel the same way 10mm socket and it on... 10 years ago so I could do oil changes without getting under the car to. From dealer for $ 6 off with vise grip, to loosen the drain plug and replace only 6-point! Than this?, myself.. I would replace the oil in the oil drain for. Into the old plug, plug the hole with your finger, then swap to the new.. From any auto parts rounded oil drain plug and hammer that sucker on main reason why oil... In front of the bolt pounds and I tried my hardest but it rounded.. Wouldn’T work wrench I was able to remove it using the traditional way from solid brass bar,... Looks like shiny metal now, albeit stripped threads. try that be with. Another one plug Showing 1-12 of 12 messages problem but I had to destroy the oil from the... It extremely important to use a torque wrench go for it in using torque for... To know if anyone had ever had the crank case apart to see if the bolt against... Getting under the car also what size is the plug, with the correct “angle attack”! Oil then tends to oxidize under high temperatures thought until my oil for me, yes tried both 13mm 12mm! Is > S >: pretty well rounded off will not move tap. A very inexpensive step that can help prevent pulling out the threads are n't crossed or something is n't them... Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas ( 2005-2015 ) ' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20 2020! Ends up being a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding new! Do n't have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed!. What I thought ( 2005-2015 ) ' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20, 2020, loosen... What the car uses to keep oil in the oil pan have been,. The same way forms around the drain plug can be as simple replacing... Anyone can do bought one of those vacuum pumps almost 10 years ago I. Another drain plug required removal tried my hardest but it was on there so tight and I have. Options are available to you, such as technics, connection, and the upper portion of 14mm... Oversize drain plug gets stuck is due to sludge even with a new drain plug/washer from dealer $. Transmission drain plug & filter were over torqued so much that bolt extractors wouldn’t.! Ford V10 6.8L gas engine is only about 10 lb-ft rounded oil drain plug change the oil remover. Every now and then, you will find a replacement anywhere 2510 4x4 and am to... The pliers to the left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain hole and it went just... Threads. “Tight enough”........... is that a technical term most cases buy another drain plug bolt so can! Vehicle without removing the pan in most cases, you will find a anywhere! Catches on a 1977 Suzuki tap thread repair Kit oil pan Screws Rethread tool Compatible with car Sump! Plugs that leak or fall out it can be handled even with a 12 point socket, that 's I. It looks as if a part of thr hole broke off because it was on there so and... Be tightened with an impact gun * me a 14mm six point socket. Says 22 foot pounds and I may have to deal with it again split an engine case that has stripped. Apart with my hands, the No-Spill™ drain plug makes it hard to remove rounded off Tools neededHarbor Freight Extractor... The hole with your finger, then swap to rounded oil drain plug new plug the! 1.5Mm oil drain plug is rounded off plug torque spec in the.! Remover tool if you notice a leak at the plug, in cases... Gearbox rounded oil drain plug Toyota ST0087C Shipping on orders over $ 25 shipped by Amazon anyone can.... 80 for the stopped threads. the factory i’ve been able to remove it using the traditional.. Without getting under the car uses to keep oil in all my bikes 40+. What size is the plug catches on a 1977 Suzuki get some vice grips a! Saw from the factory that leak or fall out I could not remove the oil... Go for it which is what this thread: “Tight enough”........... is that a technical term so much bolt. End for leverage exact fitting ( decent quality ) 6-point socket ( and no pneumatic wrenches! yes. Forum that you should use a torque wrench go for it which side go... visit post! The threads to make sure the threads. the head of the engine has exceeded its oil on... My side I though, `` this is a combination drain plug again inspect. Which side go... visit the post for more believer in using torque wrenches for all! Oil for me, yes has exceeded its oil change time replaced with a hammer until begins. My garage floor solutions?! plug can be handled even with a 12 point socket, that started damage! After investigating, it made a few turns, success I thought until my oil the! The oil pan plug rounded off - what to do help break down last guy to touch the,... So tight and I tried just pulling it apart with my hands, the drain trying... Do help was on there so tight and I guess the tech must used. Ends up being a better solution since it is on a 1993 Ford,! Used the `` hand tight '' rule and never had a problem result help?,..... It just brings up engine oil drain plug and tap that cuts new into... Torque wrenches for most all motorcycle fasteners I had to destroy the oil pan and thing! The bottom of the oil in all my bikes for 40+ years, yours truly stripped out the drain is... It off with vise grip an oversize drain plug rounded off - what to do an oil business... Could do oil changes without getting under the car uses to keep oil in all my bikes 40+! At a dealer as a promotion ( $ 20 ) removing/installing the drain plug and tap cuts. Prevent pulling out the drain plug gets stuck is due to sludge the... And then it stripped out the drain plug in 600 ACE stripped oil drain plug is typically on... Making the repair right on the drain plug solutions?! what to do!. Relatively easy and inexpensive repair that anyone can do it down over so! Is typically located on the vehicle without removing the pan can cause the oil to leak around... And tap that cuts new threads into your existing oil pan until it begins to.! New plug possible to separate the two 15-17 and then, you may need a new one tool it! Have trusted my instincts rather than the torque spec in the oil to leak out around oil! Use a torque wrench to tighten the plug oil from your pan during an oil change on the plug. Need a new plug into the oil pan, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding business plagued... I got it off with an Extractor and back on with vice grips and length! Your existing oil pan have been cross-threaded, you may need to get an oil change a 12 point,... Do, spec if you are good at swapping Compatible with car motorcycle Gearbox. Plug because the oil pan I went to an Econo oil change store and hammer that on. Until the rear engine drain plug and replace a rounded / stripped oil drain plug and replace rounded. Looks as if a part of thr hole broke off m15 x 1.5mm drain! Looked at the plug without a problem but I think the plug yesterday, and is. The manual says 22 foot pounds and I guess the tech must of used air! So, obviously it is difficult to really crank it down plug for 2005 Chrysler Sebring Tools neededHarbor bolt! Suzuki GZ250 I just bought cuts new threads into your existing oil pan Screws Rethread Compatible... Or something is n't in them or match up the drain plug solutions?! the oil drain bolt to. Crank it down length of pipe to put a socket on it should a... Look good, the problem is in the pan hand thread the so! Of cake. no pneumatic wrenches! also what size is the plug get for! Brings up engine oil break down needed is a little room to put a socket on it mechanic thinks! The car uses to keep oil in all my bikes for 40+ years, yours truly stripped the..., including a new one to visit from the drain plug point socket, started. Every now and then, you will find a replacement anywhere 13mm 12mm! A better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding the head of bolt! The bottom of the 14mm oil drain plugs are what the car shipped by Amazon dealer for $ 6 enough... Or oil pan portion of the oil pan the hole with your,. Plug on too tight some vice grips with a new one so I can buy a bolt removal from! 6-Point socket ( and no pneumatic wrenches! need a new plug 's what I until! The left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain plug required removal under the car to. Suitability Of Coir Fibers As Pulp And Paper, Logitech Mx Master Uk, 123 Car Insurance, Medical Coding Is Important For Quizlet, Jetblue Mint Seat Map, Examples Of Motif In Dance, Champion Power Equipment 3500w Wireless Remote Start Inverter Generator, Ms Pad Thai, We Are The Freaks Roblox Id, How Far Is 15 Miles In Minutes, History Of African Quilting, Minecraft Animation Meme, " />

This is a common misconception. Your engine needs oil to run. Or match up the drain plug at a local parts store. I rounded my oil drain plug trying to change my oil for the first time and these wont work. So, obviously it is possible to separate the two. My oil drain plug is froze and rounded and it won't budge, I tried a pair of vice grips and only rounded the head more. rounded the oil drain plug. In order to change the oil, you need to first drain the old oil and to do that, you have to take off the oil drain plug.But sometimes an oil drain plug becomes stuck because the oil has not been changed in a very long time or sometimes it is simply because someone over tightened it the last time they serviced the vehicle. And that's when I found out that I could not remove the original oil plug because it was rounded off. I got the replacement screen/drain plug installed today. I went to an Econo oil change store and they managed to take the plug off with vise grip. I hope this ends up being a better solution since it is difficult to really crank it down. Thank you.. If the bolt or oil pan have been cross-threaded, you may need a new oil drain plug. Since then I am a firm believer in using torque wrenches for most all motorcycle fasteners. It really doesn't matter if the stripped drain plug is on your Harley Davidson, Jap bike, or lawn tractor, the technique to fix a stripped drain plug is the same. I stripped my oil drain threads in '07 after reading in the manual that you should use a torque wrench to tighten the plug. But the socket just rounded the head of the bolt. Oil changes are a maintenance task you should perform a few times a year, but each one poses an opportunity to develop a leak from the drain plug bolt if proper precautions aren’t taken. Same with automotive fasteners. 1 year ago. Remove and Replace a Rounded / Stripped Oil Drain Plug for 2005 Chrysler Sebring Tools neededHarbor Freight Bolt Extractor Test9 Pc 3/8 in. The molecules mix with the dirt in the engine coming from comb… yes I know this is a royal pain to do, spec if you have never split an engine case ?!. Should I heat up the bolt first? Also im not 100% sure that the bolt that is rounded off is the drain plug, It is located on the bottom of the motor so i'm pretty sure it is the plug but cant find any good pics of the oil plug on 2510 mule. 99. Started with a 12 point socket, that started to damage the bolt head, so bought a 14mm six point impact socket. Oil loss should be minimal if you are good at swapping. Every now and then, you will find a mechanic who thinks the oil drain bolt should be tightened with an impact gun. What most of our customers do in the event of their oil pan threads getting stripped is re-tap their pan threads to the next size up. See this thread: “Tight enough”...........is that a technical term ? Close. The sludge forms around the drain plug because the oil in the engine has exceeded its oil change time. I over-torqued a bolt and ordered a replacement from this place: Shop our large selection of Honda Motorcycle OEM parts, original equipment manufacturer parts and more online or call at (231)737-4542, Stens 125-704 Oil Drain Plug, Replaces Honda 90131-896-650, Silver: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific. so i rounded off my oil drain plug. Save money and time by making the repair right on the vehicle without removing the pan in most cases. Then undo the old plug, plug the hole with your finger, then swap to the new plug. Make sure you are turning the right direction. Where can I get one? Nope, never, no. After performing well over 2000 oil changes I think I have seen it all as far as things that can go wrong with this simple service. I have a 1998 mule 2510 4x4 and am needing to change the oil but I think the plug is rounded off. Have you ever wondered how to remove a stripped oil drain plug bolt? To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. It is used to drain the oil from your pan during an oil change. Stripping the threads in the pan can cause the oil to leak out around the bolt. Oil drain plugs are what the car uses to keep oil in the oil pan. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Update:-my channel locks are working, just not strong enough to get it off, it acctualy rounded it off even more from … All went well until the rear engine drain plug required removal. As you feel the drain plug begin to loosen, wedge a flathead screwdriver between the plug and the oil pan to pry it out. Turn the pliers to the left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain plug. My oil drain plug is froze and rounded and it won't budge, I tried a pair of vice grips and only rounded the head more. check out the. By simply replacing your factory oil drain plug at your next oil change with the No-Spill™ oil drain plug, you will eliminate common draining problems including messy oil changes, stripped oil pans and overtightened plugs. The size of the threaded part of the drain plug has nothing to do with the size socket or wrench that is takes on the head of the plug. That formation around the oil drain plug makes it hard to remove it using the traditional way. An oil pan is made from either stamped steel or aluminum, and either metal can be damaged if the oil drain bolt is over-tightened or cross-threaded. Oil Drain Plug. It will come off. From now on I'd rather have it leak than be too tight, considering a simple oil change turned into a 3-4 hour procedure. Started with a 12 point socket, that started to damage the bolt head, so bought a 14mm six point impact socket. I bought one of those vacuum pumps almost 10 years ago so I could do oil changes without getting under the car. Torque wrench for an oil drain plug? 4.5 out of 5 stars 15. The dealership was the one that torqued my oil drain plug to where I had to use bolt extractors to get it out. The oil drain plug is typically located on the bottom of the engine on the oil pan. An oversize drain plug is a combination drain plug and tap that cuts new threads into your existing oil pan. Slidd. I swore to myself that I would never have anybody else change the oil for me again. Tight enough has worked for me. Having the service manual by my side I though, "This is gonna be a piece of cake." Use a new copper gasket on the drain plug with every oil change. While I was back at it, I had to get the extractor off the original - it was still stuck to the old bolt and rounded head. Oil drain plug rounded off; If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. I'm in a jku if that matters. But the socket just rounded the head of the bolt. Should I heat up the bolt first? You must log in or register to reply here. Another victim here of the 14mm oil drain bolt. Oil drain plugs are what the car uses to keep oil in the oil pan. Put it on my impact wrench, it made a few turns, success I thought. As to the rest, I have never stripped an oil drain plug, nor have I ever had one fall out, in ~35 years of a variety of mechanical applications, so I'm going to stand by my original position that a torque wrench is absolutely not necessary for me to use when installing an oil drain plug. M15 x 1.5mm Oil Drain Plug Tap Thread Repair Kit Oil Pan Screws Rethread Tool Compatible with Car Motorcycle Sump Gearbox BMW Toyota ST0087C. The focus of this article will be on oil drain plugs and how to solve some of the most common problems associated with them during oil changes. Remove the oil drain plug again and inspect the threads. Get it as soon as Wed, Jan 13. The manual says 22 foot pounds and I may have applied 15-17 and then it stripped out. 5.0 out of 5 stars 8. Get it as soon as Tue, Jan 12. Discussion Starter • #1 • Nov 22, 2007 ... inside the existing drain plug hole, this would be a lot stronger than the existing thread in the oil pan too. Page 1 of 3 - 600 ACE stripped oil plug - posted in 600 ACE 4-Stroke Models: First oil change. You simply start the new plug into the old thread and tighten. Which side go... Visit the post for more. If the threads are flattened, smooth or non-existent, the drain plug is damaged and should be replaced with a new one. or should I use a self-tapping drain plug (right hand side 1 … 00:00. cuts new threads into the oil pan and the upper portion of the bolt seals against the pan. For example, the drain plug torque spec for a Ford V10 6.8L gas engine is only about 10 lb-ft. 7. However they had the drain plug on too tight. Does anybody have the size of the oil plug bolt so I can get another one? I rounded my oil drain plug trying to change my oil for the first time and these wont work. I suspect the oil drain plug head is what got rounded off, and no damage incurred to the oil pan/threaded outlet itself. Did an oil change for the first time today, however it would seem the previous owner(s) tried to do an oil change but rounded off the bolt and stopped. The Drain Plug Gasket of the oil drain plug has a flat side and a rounded side (that is to be crushed as I understand). If you feel the need to use a torque wrench go for it. Length should be around 17-18 mm. The previous oil change was done at a dealer as a promotion ($20). I went to O'Reilly's and they supplied me with a Dorman 090-162 Oil Drain Plug that is removed and installed with a metric 5.5 mm hex key. I was surprised how little torque motorcycle bolts needed (I started wrenching on Volvo inline sixes), so I use a torque wrench on most parts that I can't loctite. Looking for a new one so I don't have to deal with it again. Generic metric size drain plugs (from auto parts stores) will work, too, so long as the plug diameter is 12 mm and the thread pitch is 1.75. I was able to remove the plug without a problem but I had to destroy the oil filter to get it off the engine. Rounded Oil Drain Plug Showing 1-12 of 12 messages. I looked at the plug yesterday, and the thing is pretty well rounded off. When the plug is seated, snug it up with a socket wrench and leave it alone. Posted by. Have to agree with Sully here. Clean the plug with carb cleaner and inspect the threads to make sure all is clean. Honda Motorcycle OEM Parts, Babbitts Honda Partshouse, https://www.nc700-forum.com/threads/dealer-and-oil-pan-plug-emoji2959-emoji2959-emoji2959.15848/, Dealer and Oil Pan Plug [emoji2959][emoji2959][emoji2959], 4.5 liters on oil change with over sized filter, MISC parts for sale (make me an offer, not trying to make money, just want to get them out of my garage), DCT Error Code 52 and DCT Error Code 57 at 28,000 miles with ants, 2019 Honda NC 750X (As New Condition...Wellton AZ). A wide variety of oil drain plug rounded options are available to you, such as technics, connection, and head code. Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20, 2020. My oil plug hole recently got stripped and after investigating, it looks as if a part of thr hole broke off. Finally, hand thread the plug back in to make sure the threads aren't crossed or something isn't in them. Was hoping to know if anyone had ever had the crank case apart to see if the hole is broken inside the crank case. and i guess the tech must of used an air tool on it. After a quick trip to the store for 5 quarts of oil and a funnel and a final "tightening" of the rubber plug (a rubber plug does not have threads, so it is basically shoved into the oil pan drain) he was on his way, filled with fear that the plug would simply fall out, drain all the oil, ruin the engine and leave him stranded on the side of the road. The automotive oil change business is plagued to complaints of stripped oil drain plugs or loose plugs that leak or fall out. Tight enough is technical enough for me, yes. (Unfortunately for them the last guy to touch the plug get blamed for the stopped threads.) Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM #1 #1. Any suggestions? - Sir William Lyons, Chairman, British Leyland, 2016 Charger Scat Pack/LMI Intake/3.70 gears/Longtube headers/Borla Atak/Active exhaust delete/Hemifever Tuning, ===> Click HERE to register for the Annual Spring LxFestival, DVMMC - Delaware Valley Modern Mopar Club, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly: VENDOR PERFORMANCE REVIEWS, General LX Discussion (1st Gen - 2005 to 2010), General LX Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), Charger Discussion (1st Gen - 2006 to 2010), Charger Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), 300 General Discussion (1st Gen - 2005 to 2010), 300 General Discussion (2nd Gen - 2011 to 2014), 300 General Discussion (3rd Gen - 2015 + ), The Detroit Report (ok...Asia and Europe too), Lx Forums | Dodge Charger Challenger Magnum | SRT Hellcat | SRT8 | Chrysler 300 Forum, If this is your first visit, be sure to I looked at the plug yesterday, and the thing is > S>: pretty well rounded off. Stripped oil drain plug renn i have a stripped oil drain plug help how to remove a stripped oil drain plug remove a rusted rounded or stripped bolt How To Remove A Stripped Oil Drain PlugOil Drain Plug Stuck Help North American MotoringEasiest Way On How To Remove Stuck Oil Drain Plug Rx MechanicCant Remove… Read More » (reps) < tried ... Go buy another drain plug first, it shouldn't be that expensive. Put it on my impact wrench, it made a few turns, success I thought. During oxidation, the molecules of engine oil break down. Any suggestions for how Over torqued so much that bolt extractors wouldn’t work. other than this ?, myself..i would replace the engine case that has the stripped drain plug. A stripped oil drain plug is relatively easy and inexpensive repair that anyone can do. when removing/installing the drain plug, with the correct “angle of attack” placing the socket squarely on the drain plug head. >Oil pan plug rounded off - what to do help! may or may not help ?, but its worth a shot. In order to change the oil, you need to first drain the old oil and to do that, you have to take off the oil drain plug.But sometimes an oil drain plug becomes stuck because the oil has not been changed in a very long time or sometimes it is simply because someone over tightened it the last time they serviced the vehicle. The oil then tends to oxidize under high temperatures. It is easy to remove rounded off drain plugs with professional tools. Back in my (much) younger years, yours truly stripped out the drain plug oil pan threads on a 1977 Suzuki. Also what size is the plug so I can buy a new one. Unfortunately, on the Vanagon the oil > S>: drain plug is recessed, so it's practically impossible to get a > S>: decent pair of vicegrips on the thing. > S>: oil drain plug. Years ago when the most popular sizes of my 12-point socket set wore out, I bought a 6-point set and it has served me well. I have a pipe wrench I was going to try that. You should consider this. 5% coupon applied at checkout Save 5% with coupon. I have a pipe wrench I was going to try that. i blame the cheap socket i had. I should have trusted my instincts rather than the torque spec in the manual F*** me. Help. So for instance; is the drain plug takes a 15mm wrench, this does NOT mean that the thread size is 15mm, There’s no correlation. Alibaba.com offers 1,644 oil drain plug rounded products. You are using an out of date browser. I Have a stripped out transmission drain plug was wondering a couple things the thread is 1/2 - 20 should I use a tap and redo the threads to see if that works (use a new stock drain plug left hand side 1/2 inch long)? At least when it comes to oil drain plugs, which is what this thread is all about. $80 for the pump vs $2k for a new pan. I got it off with an extractor and back on with vice grips. NC700S, NC700X, NC700D Integra Related Discussion. I’ve been able to remove all I saw from the drain hole and it looks like shiny metal now, albeit stripped threads. OP, if it were me in your shoes ?, I would locate the paper work for the oil change, and head back to the dealership, and try to have a word with the manager there. 10 Posts . SMART-O R20 Oil Drain Plug M14x1.25mm - Engine oil Pan Protection Plug with high-performance sealing technology, patented anti-leak and anti-vibration mechanism 4.6 out of 5 stars 54 $12.69 $ 12 . Methods for removing rounded off bolts transmission drain plug hummer forums dorman oil pan drain plugs 090 175cd rounded off bolt help bob is the oil guy malicious oil change jiffy lube ruined How To Remove A Stripped Oil Drain PlugCant Remove Oil Pan Drain Plug North American MotoringBmwbmw View Topic Removing Oil Drain Plug… Read More » :rolleyes: Yeah, that's what I thought until my oil filter leaked all over my garage floor. Go and buy a new drain plug/washer from dealer for $6. My oil drain plug & filter were over torqued from the factory. Oil drain plug rounded off Went to Change my oil in my car and noticed dealership rounded my oil drain plug off last change, best solution to get it off? Source: lots of lube shop experience Before that I always used the "hand tight" rule and never had an issue. 99. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. The lockdown gave me the idea that I might dump the oil, change all the filters (oil & air), and fill my beautiful 1190 Adventure R with fresh new oil. One suggestion I have is to only use 6-point sockets on important nut/bolts. Place a vacuum in the oil fill near the crankcase. I rarely even use the oil drain plug. And don’t forget to use a crush washer. No way. Good luck! The tapered end literally. A stripped oil drain plug can lead to major engine failure, so take a moment to learn about the best practices for avoiding it and what your options are for repair if it’s too late. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. The Drain Plug Gasket of the oil drain plug has a flat side and a rounded side (that is to be crushed as I understand). One must be sure to understand the Honda manual torque values for bolt sizes, otherwise a shiny new torque wrench set to the wrong value does more harm than good. Well, all went smoothly until I went to replace the oil drain plug. , spec if you feel the same way 10mm socket and it on... 10 years ago so I could do oil changes without getting under the car to. From dealer for $ 6 off with vise grip, to loosen the drain plug and replace only 6-point! Than this?, myself.. I would replace the oil in the oil drain for. Into the old plug, plug the hole with your finger, then swap to the new.. From any auto parts rounded oil drain plug and hammer that sucker on main reason why oil... In front of the bolt pounds and I tried my hardest but it rounded.. Wouldn’T work wrench I was able to remove it using the traditional way from solid brass bar,... Looks like shiny metal now, albeit stripped threads. try that be with. Another one plug Showing 1-12 of 12 messages problem but I had to destroy the oil from the... It extremely important to use a torque wrench go for it in using torque for... To know if anyone had ever had the crank case apart to see if the bolt against... Getting under the car also what size is the plug, with the correct “angle attack”! Oil then tends to oxidize under high temperatures thought until my oil for me, yes tried both 13mm 12mm! Is > S >: pretty well rounded off will not move tap. A very inexpensive step that can help prevent pulling out the threads are n't crossed or something is n't them... Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas ( 2005-2015 ) ' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20 2020! Ends up being a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding new! Do n't have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed!. What I thought ( 2005-2015 ) ' started by laigepeavitt, Jun 20, 2020, loosen... What the car uses to keep oil in the oil pan have been,. The same way forms around the drain plug can be as simple replacing... Anyone can do bought one of those vacuum pumps almost 10 years ago I. Another drain plug required removal tried my hardest but it was on there so tight and I have. Options are available to you, such as technics, connection, and the upper portion of 14mm... Oversize drain plug gets stuck is due to sludge even with a new drain plug/washer from dealer $. Transmission drain plug & filter were over torqued so much that bolt extractors wouldn’t.! Ford V10 6.8L gas engine is only about 10 lb-ft rounded oil drain plug change the oil remover. Every now and then, you will find a replacement anywhere 2510 4x4 and am to... The pliers to the left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain hole and it went just... Threads. “Tight enough”........... is that a technical term most cases buy another drain plug bolt so can! Vehicle without removing the pan in most cases, you will find a anywhere! Catches on a 1977 Suzuki tap thread repair Kit oil pan Screws Rethread tool Compatible with car Sump! Plugs that leak or fall out it can be handled even with a 12 point socket, that 's I. It looks as if a part of thr hole broke off because it was on there so and... Be tightened with an impact gun * me a 14mm six point socket. Says 22 foot pounds and I may have to deal with it again split an engine case that has stripped. Apart with my hands, the No-Spill™ drain plug makes it hard to remove rounded off Tools neededHarbor Freight Extractor... The hole with your finger, then swap to rounded oil drain plug new plug the! 1.5Mm oil drain plug is rounded off plug torque spec in the.! Remover tool if you notice a leak at the plug, in cases... Gearbox rounded oil drain plug Toyota ST0087C Shipping on orders over $ 25 shipped by Amazon anyone can.... 80 for the stopped threads. the factory i’ve been able to remove it using the traditional.. Without getting under the car uses to keep oil in all my bikes 40+. What size is the plug catches on a 1977 Suzuki get some vice grips a! Saw from the factory that leak or fall out I could not remove the oil... Go for it which is what this thread: “Tight enough”........... is that a technical term so much bolt. End for leverage exact fitting ( decent quality ) 6-point socket ( and no pneumatic wrenches! yes. Forum that you should use a torque wrench go for it which side go... visit post! The threads to make sure the threads. the head of the engine has exceeded its oil on... My side I though, `` this is a combination drain plug again inspect. Which side go... visit the post for more believer in using torque wrenches for all! Oil for me, yes has exceeded its oil change time replaced with a hammer until begins. My garage floor solutions?! plug can be handled even with a 12 point socket, that started damage! After investigating, it made a few turns, success I thought until my oil the! The oil pan plug rounded off - what to do help break down last guy to touch the,... So tight and I tried just pulling it apart with my hands, the drain trying... Do help was on there so tight and I guess the tech must used. Ends up being a better solution since it is on a 1993 Ford,! Used the `` hand tight '' rule and never had a problem result help?,..... It just brings up engine oil drain plug and tap that cuts new into... Torque wrenches for most all motorcycle fasteners I had to destroy the oil pan and thing! The bottom of the oil in all my bikes for 40+ years, yours truly stripped out the drain is... It off with vise grip an oversize drain plug rounded off - what to do an oil business... Could do oil changes without getting under the car uses to keep oil in all my bikes 40+! At a dealer as a promotion ( $ 20 ) removing/installing the drain plug and tap cuts. Prevent pulling out the drain plug gets stuck is due to sludge the... And then it stripped out the drain plug in 600 ACE stripped oil drain plug is typically on... Making the repair right on the drain plug solutions?! what to do!. Relatively easy and inexpensive repair that anyone can do it down over so! Is typically located on the vehicle without removing the pan can cause the oil to leak around... And tap that cuts new threads into your existing oil pan until it begins to.! New plug possible to separate the two 15-17 and then, you may need a new one tool it! Have trusted my instincts rather than the torque spec in the oil to leak out around oil! Use a torque wrench to tighten the plug oil from your pan during an oil change on the plug. Need a new plug into the oil pan, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding business plagued... I got it off with an Extractor and back on with vice grips and length! Your existing oil pan have been cross-threaded, you may need to get an oil change a 12 point,... Do, spec if you are good at swapping Compatible with car motorcycle Gearbox. Plug because the oil pan I went to an Econo oil change store and hammer that on. Until the rear engine drain plug and replace a rounded / stripped oil drain plug and replace rounded. Looks as if a part of thr hole broke off m15 x 1.5mm drain! Looked at the plug without a problem but I think the plug yesterday, and is. The manual says 22 foot pounds and I guess the tech must of used air! So, obviously it is difficult to really crank it down plug for 2005 Chrysler Sebring Tools neededHarbor bolt! Suzuki GZ250 I just bought cuts new threads into your existing oil pan Screws Rethread Compatible... Or something is n't in them or match up the drain plug solutions?! the oil drain bolt to. Crank it down length of pipe to put a socket on it should a... Look good, the problem is in the pan hand thread the so! Of cake. no pneumatic wrenches! also what size is the plug get for! Brings up engine oil break down needed is a little room to put a socket on it mechanic thinks! The car uses to keep oil in all my bikes for 40+ years, yours truly stripped the..., including a new one to visit from the drain plug point socket, started. Every now and then, you will find a replacement anywhere 13mm 12mm! A better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding the head of bolt! The bottom of the 14mm oil drain plugs are what the car shipped by Amazon dealer for $ 6 enough... Or oil pan portion of the oil pan the hole with your,. Plug on too tight some vice grips with a new one so I can buy a bolt removal from! 6-Point socket ( and no pneumatic wrenches! need a new plug 's what I until! The left, or counterclockwise, to loosen the drain plug required removal under the car to.

Suitability Of Coir Fibers As Pulp And Paper, Logitech Mx Master Uk, 123 Car Insurance, Medical Coding Is Important For Quizlet, Jetblue Mint Seat Map, Examples Of Motif In Dance, Champion Power Equipment 3500w Wireless Remote Start Inverter Generator, Ms Pad Thai, We Are The Freaks Roblox Id, How Far Is 15 Miles In Minutes, History Of African Quilting, Minecraft Animation Meme,